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Fotos ///M3 y M4 2020 G8X : 480 / 510 CV, RWD / AWD, manual / automático.

Tema en 'Foro General BMW' iniciado por Gus, 23 Ene 2019.

  1. cybermad

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    First drive: 2020 BMW M3 prototype
    Munich's favourite performance export is fast approaching a new generation. We get behind the wheel of a test mule to see how it's shaping up
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    NEWS
    by Greg Kable
    7 mins read
    1 July 2020
    Despite the broad disruption to its operations brought by the Covid-19 pandemic, BMW’s M division continues to hold firm to plans to reveal both the all-new M3 and M4 this September, prior to the start of production and sales by the end of the year.

    Before it gets that far, though, there’s a final phase of development testing to be completed and a validation sign-off by the German car maker’s board later in the summer, ahead of which we've been invited to drive them both in prototype form.

    Wearing heavy camouflage, the high-mileage M3 and M4 development hacks that BMW M has brought to the Sachsenring have clearly had a hard life. We’re assured they represent the latest technical standing of the car, though. Ignore the heavy cladding and plastic wrap in our pictures and you’ll be able to make out certain styling elements, including the deep new kidney grille and the widened wing panels front and rear necessitated by the adoption of wider tracks and some rather serious-looking wheel and tyres.

    Sat in the pit lane, both cars have a squat, hunkered-down stance that instantly marks them out as something a bit special. They’re quite a bit larger than the outgoing fifth-generation M3 and first-generation M4, too. Each takes on its own distinctive form: the 2021-model-year M3 appears significantly more upright next to its lower M4 sibling.

    The rear-wheel-drive saloon and coupé models here represent only half of the planned bodystyles for BMW’s mid-level M-car line-up. As before, there’ll be an M4 cabriolet by the middle of next year and, for the first time, a new M4 Gran Coupé introduced around the same time. In a continuation of familiar BMW M derivative strategy, standard and Competition versions of both the M3 and M4 are planned. The promised upping of performance comes after the introduction of the four-wheel-drive M340i xDrive and M440i xDrive, which plug the gap to the rest of the 3 Series and 4 Series line-up.

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    At the heart of each new model is the M division’s new S58 engine. The twin-turbocharged 3.0-litre in-line six-cylinder successor to the long-running S55 unit delivers 473bhp and 443lb ft in the standard M3 and M4 – 29bhp and 37lb ft increases over the outputs of the outgoing models.

    From the start of UK deliveries, the standard rear-wheel-drive models will come with the choice of either a standard six-speed manual or optional eight-speed torque-converter automatic gearbox in combination with BMW M’s electronically controlled M Sport locking rear differential. In the new M3 and M4 Competition, the output is increased by a further 30bhp to a headlining 503bhp through what BMW M describes as “some specific software changes”, while torque remains at 443lb ft. That’ll make the flagship versions of the M3 and M4 a match for any of their direct rivals on peak power.

    Unlike the standard models, though, the M3 Competition and M4 Competition will be sold exclusively with an eight-speed torque-converter automatic gearbox and, in a big break from tradition, they will also be offered with the option of BMW M’s fully variable xDrive four-wheel drive system shortly after the start of UK sales. It’ll be the first time either the M3 or M4 has been sold with anything but traditional rear-wheel drive.

    It’s reassuring to hear BMW M’s latest in-line six-cylinder and discover it possesses a more evocative exhaust note than the engine it replaces as we hit the starter button on the centre console and set the M3 prototype into ‘M1’ (the first of two preset driving modes accessed by buttons on its new multi-function steering wheel) for our first drive of the new model. It’s less raspy in character, with a deeper, more guttural tone.



    We amble down past the pit garages in first gear and head out onto the circuit. First impressions? The new M3’s S58 engine is quite a bit sharper than the old S55 unit. Not only does it sound great, with a soaring combination of hard mechanical thrashing and exhaust as revs rise, but it also punches with real purpose in lower gears.

    Back to top
    From the start of UK deliveries, the standard rear-wheel-drive models will come with the choice of either a standard six-speed manual or optional eight-speed torque-converter automatic gearbox in combination with BMW M’s electronically controlled M Sport locking rear differential. In the new M3 and M4 Competition, the output is increased by a further 30bhp to a headlining 503bhp through what BMW M describes as “some specific software changes”, while torque remains at 443lb ft. That’ll make the flagship versions of the M3 and M4 a match for any of their direct rivals on peak power.

    Unlike the standard models, though, the M3 Competition and M4 Competition will be sold exclusively with an eight-speed torque-converter automatic gearbox and, in a big break from tradition, they will also be offered with the option of BMW M’s fully variable xDrive four-wheel drive system shortly after the start of UK sales. It’ll be the first time either the M3 or M4 has been sold with anything but traditional rear-wheel drive.

    It’s reassuring to hear BMW M’s latest in-line six-cylinder and discover it possesses a more evocative exhaust note than the engine it replaces as we hit the starter button on the centre console and set the M3 prototype into ‘M1’ (the first of two preset driving modes accessed by buttons on its new multi-function steering wheel) for our first drive of the new model. It’s less raspy in character, with a deeper, more guttural tone.

    We amble down past the pit garages in first gear and head out onto the circuit. First impressions? The new M3’s S58 engine is quite a bit sharper than the old S55 unit. Not only does it sound great, with a soaring combination of hard mechanical thrashing and exhaust as revs rise, but it also punches with real purpose in lower gears.

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    With added torque concentrated across a wider rev range and a useful lift in power at the top end, there’s both more urgency and even greater linearity to the delivery than the last M3 offered (which was already a particularly even-revving performance engine). The change in character is subtle but noticeable. The throttle response is improved, too. It’s not exactly rabid but offers greater sensitivity to inputs for more precise metering of reserves.

    Less well resolved is the manual gearshift. It’s quite long in throw and rubbery in feel. Traditionalists will argue, but the truth is that the traditional six-speed manual is a long way from matching the speed and precision and you’d expect from a gearbox on a car bearing the BMW M badge.

    That’s a pity, because the rest of the driveline feels wonderfully engineered and full of focus. Although we’re yet to see any performance claims, you can expect a 0-62mph time under 4.0sec and, in combination with the traditional optional Driver’s Package, a top speed approaching 174mph for the standard rear-wheel-drive model.

    But while the engine impresses, it’s the chassis that really moves the M3's game along. It’s described as being all new and largely bespoke, with only the pick-up points for the suspension, which will come as standard with adaptive damping, being shared with the standard 3 Series. In a now familiar move, BMW M has developed a new engine strut brace that serves to stiffen the entire front-end structure quite significantly. That provides the basis for even greater fluidity and handling poise than with the standard 3 Series and prototype versions of the 4 Series we've driven recently.

    At the same time, it has provided the new M3 with a much wider front track than at any time in the past. As it did on the M3 CS, BMW M has also fitted staggered forged aluminium wheels front and rear - 19in up front and 20in at the rear as standard - in the search of added steering response. They wear 275/35 and 285/30 Michelin Pilot Super Sport tyres, making for more rubber on the road than any M3 or M4 has had before.

    In a development first unveiled on the M8 and recently brought to the facelifted M5, the new M3 and M4 receive a function that provides access to the individual driving mode options for the engine, suspension, steering and brakes via the iDrive controller. On four-wheel-drive xDrive models, it will also allow you to alter the apportioning of drive to give you pure rear-wheel-drive qualities on a track when desired.

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    The steering of our rear-driven M3 prototype is excellent - precise in action and weighted to perfection for the more demanding sections of the Sachsenring circuit. Having run a number of laps in its predecessor to form a benchmark earlier on, we can confidently say the new M3 offers greater driver involvement than the car it replaces, even in its most basic form. True, the new model lacks the compactness that once marked out the M3 among its four-door performance car rivals but it’s extraordinarily agile for its dimensions, changing direction incisively and with a very direct feel to the way it turns in to corners.

    There’s added grip as well. The wider front tyres deliver great adhesion, allowing the new model to carry high speed up to the apex and beyond with impressive neutrality and superb body control despite a quite heady weight transfer. There’s a generous amount of wheel travel given the performance car billing, but it feels magnificently settled and well within its limits when hustled hard through the Sachsenring’s Castro Omega curve - a tricky off-camber downhill constant radius right-hander that exits uphill into the equally challenging Sternquell curve.

    Push the chassis hard and the car’s M Sport differential does its usual neat trick, apportioning drive to each individual rear wheel in search of optimum traction. All of which allows you to exploit the inherent balance and assuredly work up to and, with the DSC turned off, beyond the limits. And because of its added muscle and improved response, the M3’s new engine can be relied upon to alter your cornering line on the throttle.

    It’s always tricky attempting to form an accurate impression of a new car from a handful of miles on a smooth-surfaced circuit. In this case, though, we’re confident BMW M has succeeded in injecting its highly revered performance saloon with an added dose of performance and handling prowess. There’s still a lot to learn about it, but in back-to-back runs with the old model, it felt not only a good deal faster in a straight line but also a more accommodating car to drive at or near its limits thanks to a new-found sense of handling delicacy.

    We’ll know for sure when we get to test a production version on the road later this year, but you might just be looking at the most dynamically accomplished M3 yet – one that’s bigger and heavier than ever but, on the strength of this first encounter at least, also inherently more exciting to drive.

    BMW M3 prototype

    Where Germany Price £65,000 (estimated) On sale 2021 Engine 6 cyls in line, 2993cc, twin-turbocharged, petrol Power 473bhp at 5950-7200rpm Torque 443lb ft at 2600-5950rpm Gearbox 6-spd manual Kerb weight tbc Top speed 155mph (governed) 0-62mph tbc Economy tbc CO2 tbc Rivals Alfa Romeo Giulia Quadrifoglio, Mercedes-AMG C63 S

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  2. cybermad

    cybermad Clan Leader

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    2021 BMW M3 protoype review: tested on track
    Published:30 June 2020

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    Raining? Cats and dogs mate. What counts right here and now is grip, and grip only. The plan is to kick off the session in the current M4, then step into the new car. A quick reminder: the current M4 weighs 1660kg (with the twin-clutch ’box). It’s powered by a 3.0-litre twin-turbo straight-six good for 444bhp and 405lb ft. Key to its talents are its mixed wheel sizes – 19-inch up front, 20-inch at the back – and the electronically-controlled M diff, for optimum traction and grip.

    What’s different?
    We pit, and I swap my 2019 M4 for a 2021 M3. The difference? Obviously four doors instead of two, an additional 25kg and a one-tenth from zero to 62mph compared to the new M4. Both pre-production cars are fitted with six-speed manuals, which further reduces the subjective difference in performance between previous and future, even though the latest metamorphosis of the S58 engine delivers 473bhp and 479lb ft.

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    Although M xDrive will next year be available in combination with the more powerful M3/M4 derivatives, the bottom-rung beast remains rear-drive only, just like the car five generations before it.

    Dynamically more significant than the beefed-up drivetrain is the more advanced CLAR donor platform, which also underpins the latest 3- and 4-series (we drove the latter in last month’s issue). It is stiffer, approximately 50kg lighter and more competent in terms of handling, road holding and ride.

    How does it handle, then?
    Turn-in is as brisk and positive as ever. If anything, the feedback is now meatier, marginally more positive, better grounded. This is the result of changes to more than just the steering itself; congenial partners include redesigned suspension, tuned kinematics, recalibrated springs and dampers, thicker anti-roll bars and notably tauter mounting points all round.

    Steering effort decreases when you switch from Sport Plus to Sport, and again when you go back to Normal. Although the increased lightness is accentuated by today’s slippery surface, the steering feel is still there in 3D haptic force, with input, weight and self-centering action delivering a persuasive lesson in homogeneity.

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    It's this awesome front-axle grip, rather than the car’s stopping power, which dominates the driving experience. Because the front tyres just hang on and on, the new M3 can carry quantifiably more speed into a corner than before.

    Like the M2 CS, the latest M3 is fitted with a forgiving clutch and an undemanding gearbox. Sounds like a compliment; in fact it’s a gift-wrapped criticism. Must the clutch and tranny of an M3 really feel as soft and indifferent as their 420i equivalents?

    The M Steptronic with Drivelogic is the more compelling option. Although single-gear upshifts take the blink of an eye longer, multi-gear jumps are quicker, and one must not forget that BMW’s accountants simply love the substantially cheaper ZF auto ’box used across the entire CLAR range.

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    What about the engine?
    The 473bhp powering our prototype is only an appetiser – there’s a lot more grunt to come. It starts with the M3/M4 Competition versions, which will get 503bhp, followed by the mildly decontented and even sportier CS – rated at 527bhp – and trumped by the no-holds-barred CSL, with its higher-revving 542bhp engine.

    But the key go-faster innovation for the new M3/M4 is the M xDrive all-wheel-drive system, which promises to shave two-tenths off the 0-62mph time while offering the dynamic spectrum from safe AWD to lurid RWD. The exact number, relayed off the record, is 3.8sec 0-62mph, which should improve to 3.6sec and even 3.4sec respectively as the more potent engines become available. By specifying the M driver’s package, the top speed of 155mph can be increased to 175mph. The M4 CSL will nuzzle up to the 200mph barrier, sources say.

    [​IMG]

    Is it predictable?
    Let’s face it: losing grip in the rain under power is part of this car’s DNA – if an M4 never steps sideways, you’re not trying hard enough. It’s a different story in the dry, when on-demand oversteer is there for the taking in the bottom three gears.

    To fully relish this innate tail-happiness, the new M3/M4 comes with a new drift control analogous with the AMG’s yellow oversteer thumbwheel. Wind things off progressively and you can learn on the job, in safety.

    Verdict
    It’s a better car now in almost every respect, and that appeal will only grow when it becomes available in AWD guise (due mid-2021, a few months after the rear-drive car goes on sale; the soft-top M4 will arrive late next year). The first M car to go all-wheel drive, the M5, is currently the best car BMW makes. That accolade may last only as long as it takes us to get behind the wheel of the M3 blessed with the same technology.

    Specs
    Price when new: £0
    On sale in the UK: 2021
    Engine: 2993cc 24v turbocharged straight-six, 473bhp @ 6250rpm, 479lb ft @ 2600rpm (est),
    Transmission: Six-speed manual, rear-wheel drive (all-wheel drive to follow)
    Performance: 4.0sec 0-62mph, 155mph (limited)
    Weight / material: 1685
    Dimensions (length/width/height in mm):
     
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  3. cybermad

    cybermad Clan Leader

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    2020 BMW M3 Saloon: prices, specs, release date and prototype drive

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    New BMW M3 will be available with 473bhp or 503bhp


    The new 2020 BMW M3 has been teased in a series of new images alongside the new M4 Coupe. The shots feature a camouflaged prototype that gives away few styling details but BMW has confirmed the new car will feature a new turbocharged straight-six engine driving the rear wheels.

    The new car will be launched in September and is expected to start at around £70,000. When it hits showrooms, it will renew its rivalry with the Alfa Romeo Giulia Quadrifoglio and Mercedes-AMG C63.

    The best saloon cars you can buy in 2020

    We’ve driven a prototype of the new M3. Even though it was only 90% finished, we were left with a very positive first impression. Read on for full details of the prototype drive.

    2020 BMW M3 Saloon - design


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    While the prototype in these latest images is heavily disguised, the new M3 will be instantly recognisable as the flagship of the 3 Series lineup thanks to the added menace provided by a wider track and flared wheel arches. The front bumper looks to be deeper than that of the standard car and with larger air intakes, while a bonnet bulge and a quad-exhaust setup in the rear bumper are traditional BMW M3 features.

    The standard M3 will get 18-inch alloy wheels on the front and 19-inch versions on the rear, with the Competition spec model getting 19 and 20-inch wheels respectively.


    Interior


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    The interior of the M3 will get the dashboard design and all the new tech featured in the latest 3 Series range, including a 12.3-inch digital dial cluster, and the latest infotainment touchscreen with unique M Division specific graphics and readouts. It will offer the driver a more straightforward interface and fewer physical buttons than the old car, with the majority of the car’s functions operated by BMW’s latest iDrive 7.0 infotainment system. You can also expect contoured sports seats, complete with illuminated ‘M3’ logos in the headrests - similar to the design seen in the latest M5 Saloon.

    Engines, performance and chassis
    The new M3 will feature a turbocharged 3.0-litre straight-six petrol engine. While the specifications look similar to those of the engine in the previous model, it is in fact the new S58 unit used in the X3 M and X4 M SUVs. BMW has confirmed that a 473bhp version of this engine will be available in the standard M3 with a six-speed manual gearbox, while a flagship Competition version boasting 503bhp with an eight-speed automatic gearbox will also be offered, with the latter the only one likely to make it to the UK.



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    Both versions will be rear-wheel drive at launch, with the range-topping Competition model capable of 0-62mph in 3.9 seconds and a top speed of 174mph. According to BMW, a four-wheel-drive xDrive model will arrive later. Efficiency figures have yet to be finalised, but it's estimated that the M3 Competition will produce CO2 emissions of 250g/km and will be capable of up to 28mpg when driven carefully.

    Compared to the regular 3 Series, the new M3 receives several chassis upgrades including a stiffer front axle, a reworked locking rear differential, and electronically controlled suspension. It will also feature various switchable driving modes, including a Sport Plus mode that puts the throttle, suspension and gearbox into the sharpest and most aggressive settings.

    2020 BMW M3 prototype drive - James Brodie
    One of the defining characteristics of the new M3 is its familiarity. Its ability to bring a grin to your face after only a few corners on a track is exactly what we’ve come to expect from the firm’s M Division engineers.



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    The engine is also familiar, with the new turbocharged 3.0-litre straight-six shared with the X3 M and X4 M SUVs. Here it's a more enticing prospect, with the standard M3 pushing 473bhp. It offers sharpened responses all the way to the 7,200rpm limiter, and the slick six-speed manual gearbox helps to deliver maximum driver involvement.

    Both versions of the new M3 are likely to gain around 100kg over the M4 Coupe and, as you’d expect, the four-door variant delivers a similar driving experience but with little indication of the additional heft on board. In the more powerful M3 Competition model, which boasts 503bhp, the driving experience is very similar, with the eight-speed automatic gearbox providing rapid upshifts with virtually no loss of power between changes.



    Image 2 of11

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    Both versions offer precise turn-in, with a grippy front-end that’s more aggressive than before urging you to slingshot it into a corner at pace. Any resulting oversteer is easily nullified thanks to the agility of the chassis.

    While the new M3 is now equipped with petrol particulate filters, it does emit a traditional straight-six growl. We expect the final production models to be a bit louder and produce the synthetic pops and bangs we’ve come to expect from an M Division special.
     
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    Y seguro que volverá a dar un buen baño dinámicamente a los RS5, C AMG y compañía.
     
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  9. 392C

    392C Forista Senior

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    ¿Me estoy sugestionando o la parrilla tiene mejor pinta que el Serie4?
     
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    Quizás se ve más pequeña porque los bordes siguen camuflados...
     
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    Elfstone Forista Senior

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    No se si son dos orejas o dos pulmones, aunque viendolo birn son dos riñones y nunca se han parecido tanto.
     
  12. escopeta

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    Vengo de mi Conce y me ha dicho el dueño, que él lo vio antes del covid en Alemania y que en directo es impresionante, que vaya reservando el nuevo, que el mío se queda obsoleto en 3,2,1....
     
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    Ya podrían animarse...

    [​IMG]
     
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    Es que eso es así desde siempre y no tiene pinta de que vaya a cambiar, aunque de Mercedes despues de los AMG GTR me espero cualquier cosa...pero de Audi seguro que no.
     
  15. Ivandos

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    La tiene y de lejos. Para empezar el tamaño y diseño es diferente (es más pequeña), los laterales exteriores cierran más ''inclinados''/ en diagonal hacia el centro. La parrilla está compuesta por líneas gruesas paralelas al suelo (en mi opinión increíble diseño). Y lo más significativo, es que no tiene marco! Este pequeño detalle que puede parecer que podría pasar desapercibido, es lo que marca la diferencia y la hace una mejor parrilla; y por supuesto más agresiva y deportiva que la del serie 4 ''normal''.

    Os dejo un par de fotos que se filtraron hace semanas para que veáis cómo sería su acabado final.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Veis la evidente diferencia del diseño?

    [​IMG]
     
    Última edición: 7 Jul 2020
  16. escopeta

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    Brutal!!

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    ME acabo de re-enamorar de mi Morlaco viendo el cáncer del morrochoto extenderse por la gama, que forma de joder una carrocería...........hasta el el serie 3 actual que no me entra me parece sublime al lado.
    Me va durar mucho mas de lo que me esperaba el Morlaco.....
     
  18. cybermad

    cybermad Clan Leader

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  19. cybermad

    cybermad Clan Leader

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    El M3 también está con la riñonada al aire, para regocijo de los que tenían alguna esperanza de que no se la calzaran, además lleva el radar a un lado y 2 sensores bien gordos para rematar el despropósito, como el M4 :facepalm:

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  20. Gus

    Gus Tali-bahn Administrador Coordinador

    Registrado:
    28 Ene 2002
    Mensajes:
    147.977
    Me Gusta:
    102.830
    Ubicación:
    A 1800 kms del Ring
    Modelo:
    i3/Z3/MX5/427
    Guauuu....basta verlo/enfocarlo desde una posición natural( nadie ve los coches desde la altura de la matrícula) y ya lo vemos.... tremendo, si señor :fiesta:
     
    A Carretillas, GOLDAR y escopeta les gusta esto.
  21. jangel

    jangel Clan Leader Coordinador

    Registrado:
    15 Dic 2002
    Mensajes:
    62.646
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    67.011
    Modelo:
    Opel corsa
    A Gus le gusta esto.
  22. bmw_powa

    bmw_powa Forista Senior

    Registrado:
    9 May 2013
    Mensajes:
    6.499
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    19.708
    Ubicación:
    Madrid
    Modelo:
    f31 335d 2014
    Que espanto de riñones en el color blanco xD. Si sale así finalmente habría que cogerlo en negro, claro
     
  23. GOLDAR

    GOLDAR Forista Senior

    Registrado:
    11 Feb 2008
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    5.066
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    3.925
    Ubicación:
    Galicia
    A jangel le gusta esto.
  24. cybermad

    cybermad Clan Leader

    Registrado:
    11 Feb 2008
    Mensajes:
    44.615
    Me Gusta:
    46.521
    Ubicación:
    más p'allá que p'acá
    Modelo:
    Zeposf3rico
    El M4 en el ring quemando goma, en el minuto 1:52 sale el Chiron y después el M4 enlazando curvas...:devil:



    Así suenan M3 & M4 (G80/G82)


     
    A escopeta y jangel les gusta esto.
  25. Gus

    Gus Tali-bahn Administrador Coordinador

    Registrado:
    28 Ene 2002
    Mensajes:
    147.977
    Me Gusta:
    102.830
    Ubicación:
    A 1800 kms del Ring
    Modelo:
    i3/Z3/MX5/427
    Que viene! En dos meses lo veremos...

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    [​IMG]
     
    escopeta, GOLDAR, Navero y 2 otros les gusta esto.
  26. *NANO*

    *NANO* Clan Leader Miembro del Club

    Registrado:
    27 Ene 2007
    Mensajes:
    79.293
    Me Gusta:
    136.849
    Ubicación:
    MADRID
    Modelo:
    LFA,MC12,F1
    Unete a BMW FAQ Club Unete a BMW FAQ Club Unete a BMW FAQ Club
    Se avecina algo serio.
     
    A escopeta, GOLDAR y Gus les gusta esto.
  27. Gulf627

    Gulf627 Clan Leader

    Registrado:
    14 May 2005
    Mensajes:
    27.579
    Me Gusta:
    14.369
    Ubicación:
    Europa
    Modelo:
    E36 - F56 - E86
    Muy muy serio....:chulo:
     
    A escopeta, GOLDAR y Gus les gusta esto.
  28. Csar

    Csar #noeslomismo Miembro del Club

    Registrado:
    14 Abr 2009
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    12.645
    Me Gusta:
    12.570
    Modelo:
    Vito/Tmax/Macan
    Unete a BMW FAQ Club Unete a BMW FAQ Club Unete a BMW FAQ Club
    [​IMG]

    Diría yo que la llanta que va en el eje delantero debería ser la trasera y la trasera es la delantera... .fijaros en el buje y parábola de uno y otro. Supongo que están probando todo y no tiene mas importancia también.
     
    A *NANO* le gusta esto.
  29. Elfstone

    Elfstone Forista Senior

    Registrado:
    21 Jun 2007
    Mensajes:
    4.668
    Me Gusta:
    3.809
    Ubicación:
    Murcia
    No es el mismo modelo de llanta
     
  30. Csar

    Csar #noeslomismo Miembro del Club

    Registrado:
    14 Abr 2009
    Mensajes:
    12.645
    Me Gusta:
    12.570
    Modelo:
    Vito/Tmax/Macan
    Unete a BMW FAQ Club Unete a BMW FAQ Club Unete a BMW FAQ Club
    Lo dices porque has visto otra imagen mas clara o por lo que ves en ésta?
     

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